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Consolidated Source?

Posted by ctrebby 
Consolidated Source?
January 26, 2011 01:39AM
Greetings again-

I'm in the process of searching the internet for the products I'll need for my build. I don't have a problem finding Okuma or Plascore, I'm just having trouble finding the Plywood and Plascore (or similar product) at the same site. I knew shipping costs were going to be high, and I've budgeted for that however, if I could find both products at the same site I would be a significant savings in shipping (I think). Does anyone have a source where I could find both products to save some cash in shipping.

Thanks again guys for all your help.

Chad
Re: Consolidated Source?
January 26, 2011 03:51AM
Perhaps there are some Plascore retailers out there.
I have always purchased it directly from the manufacturer....using their 800 number.
But that's probably dumb (on my part) now that I think about it.

You might want to call Plascore and ask them if they have a retailers list.

You can buy West System resin directly from Gougeon Bros (the manufacturer) but it's not a good idea.
West does not want to compete with their own retail network, so they charge the highest possible price.

I've been buying resin from Larry at Raka recently. But when I did buy West System stuff I could
get it for 30% less at Marine Wholesale in Seattle (30% less than buying it directly from West).
The fabric prices West charges are nutso.
Re: Consolidated Source?
January 26, 2011 04:49AM
What about "Nidacore"the product looks the same as "Plascore" and is listed on several of the pages I was looking at. Does anyone have a experience with this product vs Plascore?
Re: Consolidated Source?
January 26, 2011 05:07AM
At one time I found a marine supply place in Seattle that was selling Plascore. But they had had their own name for it, which I can't remember, but they told me it was the same stuff. Anyways, I think a place like that would have the best chance at having both the products that you want . However the markup on the plascore was so much that I could get it directly from the factory and have it shipped for the same price. If I can find the place I will let you know.

J
Re: Consolidated Source?
January 26, 2011 12:23PM
I found Fiberlay out of Seattle. They carry a product they call "Canacore" the sale guy from Plascore said that Fiberlay carries thier product so I assume this may be what you were talking about. $134/sheet seems about right. However they dont carry Plywood either. Looks like Im gonna have to bite the bullet and pay to ship them separate. Oh well....
Re: Consolidated Source?
January 26, 2011 01:07PM
I spoke to a travelling NidaCore salesman once. I was impressed. He actually had a lot of
hands-on laminating experience. He told me I should be vacuum bagging. "It's easy," he said, "you can
use the back end of a shop vacuum and get better, stronger layups."

I never did make that jump. I'll have to get some of the basic materials, peel-ply etc. And play with it.
Anyway I have a hunch NidaCore is just as good. It doesn't look like it's any cheaper. But I do think
they have a wider retail network.
Re: Consolidated Source?
January 26, 2011 01:15PM
Seems to me the last time I bought 3/4" Plascore it was less than 100 bucks a sheet. I bought 8 sheets. Haven't used it all up yet. I got that shipped in straight from the factory in Michigan. They sell any width and any length you want. I got 4x8 and joined it, because the truckers hate the long stuff, and charge more to ship it. But it would be nice to get 5' x 18' stock. The waste stuff from the corners of big panels like that could be used to make seats, pedestals and lockers inside the boat.

Interior parts made from plywood really add on the weight. I used to make seats with hand-laminated panels of end grain balsa core. And that saved a ton of weight. Plascore is even better.

Some wood boat aficionados will say boats can be too light. That heavy is good. But they don't really know. All they ever rowed was heavy. I'm one of the few people anywhere who has ever actually rowed an ultra-light drift boat, because I'm one of the few who has ever actually made one (out of end grain balsa core).

And I can tell you they row like a dream. Balsa core is obsolete. Plastic honeycomb core is where it's at. I haven't used balsa core since the late 1980s now. But it did prove the concept. Ultra-light boats that are stout enough to use are the best boats there are. Best without qualification. Those who want to argue otherwise should take a deep breath and row a light boat first. Before saying anything. Actually balsa core is fine for anything above the water line, but not below. It's really good for making compound curves, if you need that for any reason.

Mike from Stealthcraft boats mentioned the bending resistance (stiffness) of a "stressed skin panel" (which is what you make with honeycomb core) increases as the square of the panel thickness. In other words a honeycomb panel 4" thick is sixteen times stiffer than a 1" thick panel. Makes me think 1" honeycomb core would be a better bottom panel choice than 3/4"

The stuff doesn't weigh much any way. Next time around I think I'll use 3/4" on the sides and 1" on the bottom.

==========
One more time....
Logical arguments only get you so far. The real proof is in the rowing. But think of it this way.
No matter what drift boat you are talking about, aluminum wood fiberglass or otherwise, everybody knows how much better the boat handles when only two are in the boat. Put that third passenger in the boat and it suddenly rows like glue on the bottom of the boat. Put a fourth person in a drift boat and you need the incredible hulk on the oars.

So think of it this way. Let's say you do have three in the boat. And now you reduce the payload by approximately the weight of a fisherman. But you do it by chopping the weight out of the boat instead of the flesh. Now you get the same performance as two. But you still have three. Actually weight distribution plays into it a bit too. But still. You get the point. Row an ultra light with only two in the boat and you can damn near go back upstream.



Re: Consolidated Source?
January 27, 2011 04:54AM
I took a quick look at the Plascore website and got a bit confused at all the choices. Are you using the PP Honeycomb found under Marine or one of the other choices?
Re: Consolidated Source?
January 27, 2011 05:03AM
Found it. I just had to dig deeper.
Re: Consolidated Source?
January 27, 2011 01:17PM
There are different kinds of Plascore. I have not tried to learn the nomenclature.
I call through to a salesman and ask for "3/4" with the resin barrier"
I am thinking about 1" for the floor panel next time around.
Re: Consolidated Source?
January 27, 2011 03:16PM
The sales guy I talked to knew exactly what I needed when I told him what I was doing. He said I could order from them, but they were "a few" weeks out on orders because they don't stock anything, it all made to order. He refered me to Fiberlay.com and said they stock the product. What I have found searching all the sights for NIDAcora and Plascore is that you either pay for the product or pay for the shipping. By that I mean you can find it for $89/sheet but you going to pay $200 for shipping or you can find it for $135 and get much cheaper shipping. All in all you going to end up paying about the same. I did find Noahsboatbuilding.com that stocked both NIDA core and Okume, But when I called for a freight quote it was over $750 just for freight. It turns out the company they use doesn't cover my state (WY). He said its usually about $150 and where in the US and didn't know why it was so expensive to get it here. After ensuring him we have roads in WY he called the Company and found they just dont cover our state (they will but you have to pay.) I dont say this to knock Noahsboatbuilding.com They were great it was the shipping company that was the hang up.
Re: Consolidated Source?
January 27, 2011 03:28PM
I am with you on this one. My next order will include 1 inch for bottoms. The difference in weight between 3/4 and 1 inch plascore is negligible. The additional stiffness, engery absorption and flotation properties make it a good idea.

With all the panels/decks/beams in the fabrication on a 16 foot 6 white water boat I have used about 13 1/2 gallons of epoxy. The only thing left are the hatch covers. I will finish up using just over 14 gallons and the boat is still very light. I know of a person who is using 1/2 inch plywood for his decks and hatch covers. I told him he was making a big mistake. My finished boat will be 200 pounds under his.
Re: Consolidated Source?
January 27, 2011 07:46PM
C'mon Larry, don't leave us hanging! We need some updated pictures!
Re: Consolidated Source?
January 27, 2011 10:55PM
The project has been slowed to a crawl for a while. Used up all the glass. I got all the deck segments epoxied and filleted which is my least favorite task. Have started working on hatch openings and covers. This is one slow process. The plascore hatch lids need a wood edge frame, plywood reinforcement on the under side, glass top and bottom. I have 7 hatch opening which all get a raised combing strip which needs to be sized and epoxied in place.

Have also wasted a bunch of time figuring out how to fill in under the bulk heads. I am using polyethylene foam. The only way to hold it in place is with 5200 and even that does not stick to the surface of the foam when it is smooth. If it's cut and the 5200 is worked into the foam cells a bit it has just enough hold. Not the best choice. So far this is the only thing I have ever found which will not stick to 5200.
---

As soon as the front hatch is finished I will post a photo of the parts. This is going to take a while. I also need to keep it going as I have to get the boat out of the shop so I can start working on a drift boat for a guide who is moving to a plascore boat over a Cl**** Craft. Wise move if you ask me.
Re: Consolidated Source?
January 28, 2011 09:00PM
Larry,

I don't post here much, but you might have better luck using wood contact cement for the closed cell foam. I used to outfit a good many whitewater kayaks with the closed cell stuff to make the boat fit tighter in key areas. The contact cement held up surprisingly well. The foam on the other hand took quite a beating after getting in and out of the boats several times a day.

Might be worth a shot if the 5200 is too much of a pain in the ass...

Just a thought...
Re: Consolidated Source?
January 28, 2011 09:28PM
I use Mondo Bond for ethafoam and fiberglass, never had a failure even while paddling upside down.
Re: Consolidated Source?
February 03, 2011 10:04PM
If you are in Wyo. you can just get it from MacBeaths in SLC. Delivery is the only issue, unless your close enough to drive the distance and pick it up yourself, which I recomend, so as to insure that you get the sheets you want rather than having them pick them out for you. I let one of the shop hands pick out 2 sheets for me and I ended up putting them back and picking out better looking ones. Typicaly they want to get rid of the old weathered stuff ASAP, so you are less likely to get the better sheets if they pick them.
I went through all the same problems you are going through when I started my project and finaly came to the same conclusion as you may have by now, there just isn't any place that I have found to get the Okoume AND Plascore in one location.
I and another man on this list joined forces and placed an order together for two boats and we got a great deal on the shipping as a result - the final price came in under 70 bucks a sheet for the Plascore I think.
There may be an alternative for getting you the Okoume Plywood from Macbeaths if you want to consider it;
I am in Vernal Utah, about 3 1/2 hrs from SLC and go there from time to time to pick up products at Macbeaths. If you want to save yourself some distance (provided however that it even would, depending on your location) I could pick it up for you and keep it here and you could pick it up, that would save you shipping on top of the 100 + bucks a sheet.

Also, there is an option when ordering Plascore as well; I talked with the sale rep and they told I could have the sheets cut in half and they would be able to ship Fed-Ex for less than half the price. I consider that but then we were able to find a third party who wanted 2 sheets as well, which made our order even sweeter - total 6 sheets shipped fed-Ex for under $70 a sheet.
Still, I would order directly from the manufacturer rather than from a third party distributor, even if I had to have them cut in half - it just isn't cost effective any other way as I found out.

P.S. noahsboatbuilding is based in Canada and thats why its so expensive to ship - they are also very slow in filling and shipping your orders - although they do have pretty good prices it seems, the hassal I went through wasn't worth the trouble.

I just ordered some System 3 epoxy from Fiberglass supply and found they have the best price of all the others I have used and, what I like the best, NO HASSEL, the shipment will be here today and I ordered on sunday. And I saved about 25 bucks in the process, another +

Mike
Re: Consolidated Source?
April 13, 2018 07:28AM
You can look up for it online and then you can take help of Courier services Ft Worth for quick deliveries. How your product reaches you is also very important. Therefore, look out for good service that delivers the product unbroken and on time.
Re: Consolidated Source?
April 15, 2018 02:50AM
As an alternative to Plascore is Air-Comb by Polyumac. It is a bit more expensive than Plascore but you may be able to purchase it locally because it has distributors. Polyumac Air-cell
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